Reading, Listening, Watching

[purplecat]

Reading: Seveneves by Neal Stephenson which is good but loooong (albeit not quite so long, I don't think, as some of his other novels). I'm enjoying it. He's obviously having fun with all his "how to live in orbit" stuff though there is obviously some grim fall-of-civilisation bits to come.

Listening: I've discovered a new podcast, The Real McCoy devoted (unsurprisingly) to the Seventh Doctor. I've liked the previous stuff from one of the hosts, Eric Kyle: The Writer's Room which analysed all of classic Doctor Who from the perspective of the writing and The Doctor Who Book Club Podcast which was reading its way through the Virgin and BBC Book output before it ran out of steam. So far, I've liked the first episode of The Real McCoy though that did cover all of the sixth Doctor in one episode so we'll see what it's like when they cover things in more depth.

Watching: We appear to have decided to watch The New Avengers which B recalls fondly from his childhood and of which I have no memory at all. I think I prefer the 1960s version, though I suspect some of it is that I really don't like the Gambit character though I'm not sure why - he's clearly intended to a version of Steed updated to the 1970s but I find him a bit creepy and smug which I don't find Steed, but its hard to pin that down to any specific behaviour since Steed could definitely be smug and was certainly flirtatious in much the same way that Gambit comes across as creepy to me.

Comments

[magister]

Macnee has the ability to defuse lines that should be creepy. There's a moment in Death at Bargain Prices where he has a line about "They told me 'Our Mrs Peel is in ladies underwear', so I dashed up the steps two at a time." (Possible misquote) From Gareth Hunt, it would seem seedy, from Macnee, somehow, it doesn't.

Thetes a few other problems I have with TNA. Purdey is infantilised, and it tries to be adult, in the same way as The Professionals did. Which is to say a 14-year-old boy's idea of adult. Gambit's fights in particular feel like they're being taken very seriously, plus he gets dialogue like "When you tried to kill me, you threw away the rulebook." All a bit sad, really.

[sir_guinglain]

That's a really good point about Macnee.

[purplecat]

You may be right about Macnee (or the combination of Macnee and Rigg et al). The relationship between Steed and Mrs Peel is ambiguous but they're either shagging like rabbits off screen or have reached a point where they both know its not going to happen but are enjoying the pretence of flirtation anyway.

Gambit and Purdey come across as though he wants to get into her knickers, she doesn't want that and he will not take no for an answer. Complicated by the fact that she nevertheless seems to get jealous when he pays attention to anyone else (though Lumley manages mostly to insert some ambiguity into that so its not clear if she's actually jealous or simply preforming jealously in the way Steed and Peel used to perform flirtation). At any rate, the relationship between Steed and Mrs Peel feels consensual in a way that between Gambit and Purdey does not.

[magister]

I remember either Macnee or Rigg saying that Steed and Peel had once had a very passionate fling years before which was now over and they'd both moved on.

And yes, gambit comes across as someone who won't take no for an answer and is something of a nuisance. Given the fetishization of his martial arts skills, he probably ought to come across as something of a threat and, were he played by a more convincing hard man than Gareth Hunt, he'd probably seem much more unpleasant.

I think there's a lot wrong with the way Purdey's written. She's made to appear childlike a lot of the time. I can't imagine Diana Rigg, Honor Blackman or even Linda Thorson being given a scene where they're written as stamping their feet and shouting "I'm a girl and insist on that being recognised." There's a backward step to her treated as a damsel in distress. I can't imagine an episode where Gambit is poisoned, leaving the other two to race to save him or one where Steed is kidnapped and held hostage. Mrs Peel and Mrs Gale were often seen as more physically dangerous than Steed. Even Tara had episodes where she worked solo because Steed was injured or under house arrest.

Another point - Steed's seen with a series of romantic partners. So's Gambit. I think the only episode where Purdey's seen to have any sort of relationship, it's because it's relevant to the plot and turns out to be a threat. There's something rather creepy in this if any relationship that she has that's not Gambit being a sex pest or Purdey making passes at Steed leads to her effectively being punished for it.

[magister]

A further thought. When the relationship between the three leads works best, you have Steed as the elder statesman and Gambit and Purdey as his proteges. I rather like the scene in Midas Touch with Purdey and Gambit discussing Treasure of the Sierra Madre during a car chase

If they'd kept Steed as a father figure and Purdey as a kind of brother and sister, affectionately teasing one another then I think that would have worked. Gambit pestering Purdey and Purdey mooning over Steed makes it all rather problematic, though.

[purplecat]

If they'd kept Steed as a father figure and Purdey as a kind of brother and sister, affectionately teasing one another then I think that would have worked.

Yes, absolutely. Sometimes that seems to be what they're aiming for and then it veers off somehow - possibly due to some rather reductive assumptions in the writing or directing about how men and women interact.

[purplecat]

Purdey does seem to spend a lot of time being a damsel, but I recall being struck at a point where I had a good chunk of the Mrs Gale episodes on DVD but only half a dozen Mrs Peel ones that Mrs Peel got captured and needed rescuing in all six (and hence comparing her rather unfavourably to Mrs Gale) - I don't know if it was just an unfortunate selection for the DVD (it was from one of the colour seasons and we've not watched much of the colour version of the 60s show though I think we've now seen most of the B&W episodes) or if the show had been slowly moving in that direction anyway.

[magister]

Not seen the colour episodes for a while, so I dont know if things were moving that way. However, none difference that I've always thought important - when Mrs Peel was captured, she seemed to regard it as a minor irritation rather than anything serious.

[purplecat]

There's one where she's dressed as a canary in a giant cage and she looks incredibly annoyed about the whole thing - so yes, its rare that it feels damsel in distress, even when it is.

[sir_guinglain]

There are probably theses to be written on Mike Gambit, Purdey and 1970s performative masculinity, threats thereto, and the assertive women it could accommodate.

[purplecat]

Lots of it seems a bit odd and awkward, though it is hard to assess how much of that may be the actor failing to rise to the material. Because, I can see its trying to follow the template of Steed and Mrs Peel, but seems to misunderstand it. I don't think its just Gambit though, some of Purdey's behaviour is - well, sending mixed messages - but I think Lumley manages something much closer to the knowing ambiguity of Mrs Peel than Gambit does to the playful but respectful flirtation of Steed.

[daniel-saunders.livejournal.com]

Most people don't seem to like The New Avengers. I think the first season is pretty good; I re-watched some episodes recently and they seemed to hold up reasonably well. The second season is mostly not good, but with one or two very good episodes. I may be biased as I saw The New Avengers a long time before I saw the original series, so I have nostalgia for it that I don't have for the original.

I don't dislike Gambit, but I think he does come across as vaguely creepy and sexist in these hopefully more aware days in a way that Steed never did. It's noteworthy that the second season had episodes that seem deliberately intended to deepen the characterisation of Steed and Purdey, but Gambit never gets that depth.

[purplecat]

I've mostly been enjoying it (apart from Gambit), though we had a real clunker of an episode on Monday night which seemed to depend upon everyone being deeply stupid. Last night's was better but still seemed to rely on the Avengers making a number of obvious errors (G. who briefly came down to watch with us was deeply critical to their approach to bodyguard detail). I'm not sure where we are season-wise - probably halfway through the first?

[liadt]

I don't think the 'New Avengers' were as good as the originals and like most people I don't like the Canadian ones, I did like the giant disco computer one though. I think they were trying to be a bit more real (as the Avengers go) and it didn't really work for me. I remember Gambit having a little black book and people kept breaking into Purdey's flat when she wasn't wearing much!

Oh and Steed's friends: I wouldn't want to be friends with Steed;p

[purplecat]

Not sure - the Avengers certainly started out trying to be fairly real and then got more fantastical so I can see the idea of moving a bit back towards the spy genre made sense. It's odd how lots of it doesn't quite work - like, as you say, people endlessly breaking into Purdey's flat when she is half-dressed makes me roll my eyes in a way that Mrs Gale and Mrs Peel running around in implausible leather outfits didn't really.

[liadt]

I suppose because Mrs Gale and Peel decided to go out wearing leather, while Purdey was home alone so it's more of a peeping Tom effect? And I think 1970's colour tends to make things look grubbier than 60's.

[purplecat]

There's something a bit Benny Hill about a lot of it. There was a sequence in a recent episode we saw in which Purdey, in silk pyjamas, is pretending to be a shop dummy but her trousers keep falling down...